Tom Barman: "At every concert I spot someone yawning"
Veto.be, 25 Nov. 2007 - original in Dutch

"Sexy, danceable, very eclectic and in-your-face": thus describes dEUS frontman Tom Barman his band's new CD. Recording will end on December 10 and the album will hit the stores in March 2008. Between studio sessions, Barman found the time to discuss music and art, his two big loves, at the STUK auditorium.

The art-loving Antwerpenaar was invited by an art teacher of Leuven University to debate about the links between music and visual arts. Reason for this was the That's Blue! compilation, on which Barman mixes jazz music from the Blue Note label with statements by American artists.

Veto: The CD mostly features music from the 60's. Most of the artists you selected are abstract expressionists who were supporting those then not-so-famous jazz musicians. Why this choice?

Tom Barman: Jazz and abstract expressionism are the only two genuinely American artistic currents. That was a beautiful coincidence. There were also some synergies between those artists. They would smoke and drink together in pubs, chase around the same girls and influenced each other's work. I didn't investigate any further: I just love art and music. I figured combining both sounded like a great idea.

I'm old-fashioned. I believe that you must actually listen to an album. So I thought it would be interesting to somehow lighten jazz — a music genre that not everyone will easily get into — with a cinematic atmosphere. I did that by having people talk over the music. As it happens, I'd just seen the Painters Painting documentary (1973, Emile de Antonio — Ed.), in which painters discuss their work. There was my approach. I found that really important. Buscemi and Hooverphonic's Alex Callier also did a compilation for Blue Note, but I found theirs a bit corny at times. They would either add a beat to the songs or choose easy-listening up-tempo jazz. I'd rather have jazz that challenges you, while staying very melodious.

Actually I wanted to make a second series with a similar approach. I was to release a compilation on Universal's Impulse label with statements from film directors who used jazz a lot, such as Louis Malle, Martin Scorsese and Woody Allen, but the Universal boss got fired in the meantime. I don't think that the new boss, a rather commercial-minded guy, finds it's a good idea (laughs). He's not really a jazz lover. I may still do that record at some point, but not on Universal.

Fake hype

Veto: In 2006 dEUS promoted Pocket Revolution in the United States. In the tour diary published on your website, one could read that your American tour didn't always fill the venues you played.

Barman: Obviously not. I mean to stress this, so that there's no fake hype about it. In big cities like New York, L.A. or San Francisco, the audience was large enough. But smaller places were more of a catastrophe. America is such a huge country, you need a whole marketing machine there. So... no, it wasn't always easy.

With the next album, we'll probably tour as support act for other bands. We already opened twice for Snow Patrol. In the 90's, we did that a few times with Blur. Such concerts do make a difference. For the rest... well, you just have to work hard. The question arises whether we want to put that kind of energy into it. We're also now all middle-aged. Some of us have children. We'd love to get there, but do we have the stamina to start again from scratch in the US? We've been working on that for ten years in Europe. We will play in the US, though. A lot of bands would be very hesitant to end up in front of 30 people in the US when they play in front of 3000 fans in Europe. I'm not saying such situations were great, but I do find that totally rock'n'roll.

Veto: Is there nothing positive about playing in front of 30 people? You did...

Barman (breaking in): No! (laughs) I have no hang-ups about playing in a small bar, but it has to be full. We've worked hard to get to where we are in Europe. There comes a time when you don't want to play to too small numbers anymore. For America, you make an exception, because it's such a crazy country and because it's worth it.

Sexy girls

Veto: In a double interview with Luc Tuymans for De Morgen, he said that he feels good when people react emotionally to his work. The journalist asked you what kind of reactions you got. You said "What can I say? People jump or stay quiet." Don't you ever get any other reactions?

Barman: Of course I do. I probably answered like that because it's such a cliché question. It's probably a very different thing for a painter: his relationship with his audience is much more restrictive. A rocker plays in front of his audience every night. Asking what I think about the audience's reactions is like asking a doctor how a flu patient reacts. (grins) This might be a bizarre comparison, but you see what I mean. The range of reactions isn't that extensive. They jump, they cry, they laugh or they yawn and that's about it. Fortunately they don't yawn that much. But I do spot the odd yawner at every concert. (laughs)

Veto: But those are all non-verbal reactions. Doesn't anyone come and talk to you after gigs?

Barman: Of course they do. And that's okay. It's great when people say they have sex while listening to our music. It's a really nice compliment. I especially enjoy overhearing people listening to our music. Hearing dEUS blaring loudly from a car when you're walking on the street, that's just great. Or receiving a SMS from someone in Spain who just saw two sexy girls in a convertible with Pocket Revolution playing at full volume. (laughs) Those things make me happy. It's like a stolen moment, not someone who consciously compliments you. It's just people doing what I also do with other artists' music: just listen and enjoy. That's the nicest way.

Veto: That reminds us of those many scenes in Any Way the Wind Blows where people are looking out of the window at others going about their daily routine. Do you also do that when you're walking around?

Barman: Definitely, and I don't think I'm the only one. I see Any Way the Wind Blows as a kind of city walk. I was criticised because the film has no story and no action. Indeed, at times absolutely nothing happens, but hopefully the film is a commentary on that nothingness. At other times, rather dramatic events take place. But they're not announced with loud violins. They just happen, and that's the way things go in real life. You're in a great mood and suddenly you're told that someone's got cancer. That keeps you worried for two hours, and then life just goes on — depending on how well you know that person, obviously. It's tough, but it's true. The world won't stop if your best friend dies tomorrow.

Ambitious

Veto: Do you have any ideas for a second film?

Barman: Yes, I've got different ideas. I won't be directing for another five years or so, but three years from now, I'd like to have those three scenarios completed. I would love to make three films in a row. That sounds ambitious, but it's something I'd like to do. And it's cheaper than letting three years pass between each film, as you can keep on working with the same crew. I have plans for a comedy, a film noir and a family portrait. The film noir would be in English and the comedy in Dutch. As for the third one, I don't know yet.

Those films will be very different from Any Way the Wind Blows. They will tell a story and I won't use too much music. I wanted to stuff a lot of things in my debut film. A lot of music, a lot of scenes, a lot of characters. This will be something else. Any Way the Wind Blows wasn't your typical movie, but that doesn't mean that I want to make experimental non-stories for the rest of my life. So, I do have ideas, but I'm currently having a lot of fun with the band. I hope that we'll be able to record a few albums before I start working on those films.

Veto: Several albums over five years?

Barman: Yes, there shouldn't be such a time gap between each album. In 2008 we'll release a new album. We would like to have the next album ready by the following year. We built our own studio. That helps: recording is cheaper and we can work whenever we feel like it.

Veto: What can you tell us about this new record?

Barman: It's loud. There are also some softer songs on it, but not that much. It's different from Pocket Revolution. Recording that album was — as with all our albums, in fact — an intense period. We recorded Pocket Revolution during a very tough time, which is why it's a rather introvert album. The new one is more extrovert. But I won't use the word "happy". (laughs)

Veto: Do you find that all dEUS records differ a lot from each other?

Barman: That's not my business. I won't say I don't care about that, but it's not for me to say, really. Does it matter, anyway? I do hope that each album is unpredictable. I don't even know beforehand what the next album will sound like. That's the fun about line-up changes. Even if this record is being made with the same people as the previous one, I think it will still deliver a few surprises.

Christoph Meeussen & Jozefien Van Beek
(translation by Jyves)